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 Mexican Conservatives/Centralists are to blame for the loss of mexican territory in 1846!

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Tuco



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PostSubject: Mexican Conservatives/Centralists are to blame for the loss of mexican territory in 1846!   Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:08 pm

It was the nationalist centralists who demanded war with the USA (who at the same time, also wanted war with Mexico) in 1845.

A centralist mexican dictatorship was overthrown in Mexico in 1845; federalist/liberal José Joaquín Herrera became president. It was at this time that Texas was annexed by the United States. The centralists wanted war due to this; Herrera wanted to negotiate.


Mexican federalist José Joaquín Herrera

The fact that Herrera did not declare war infuriated the centralists who immediately attempted to overthrow Herrera with success. Herrera was to negotiate with american government representative John Slidell; when Slidell arrived, Herrera under pressure from conservatives refused to meet with Slidell and later was betrayed and overthrown by General Mariano Paredes and Slidell was kicked out of the country.

American General Zachary Taylor was ordered to move to the Río Grande shortly after this (the Río Grande was never agreed as a border by the mexican government; therefore, this effectively was an unauthorized invasion of what the mexican government considered its territory) and Mariano Paredes issued a declaration war and attacked Taylor, thus starting the Mexican American War.

The conservatives were not fueled by nationalism; they believed they could win the war. And in fact, they could. The Mexican Army was at least 4 times larger than the by then American Army, was well armed, had experience and was well trained. If it wasn't for the effectiveness of american light artillery the USA had a good chance of being defeated by the mexicans.

And thus, the mexicans suffered truly embarassing defeats (See: Battle of Churubusco) which effectively ended in the loss of half of the mexican territory. Although, the war wasn't certainly cost-free for America; 13,000+ american soldiers were killed in the conflict. About twice the number of mexican soldiers (around 25,000) lost their lives as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Joaqu%C3%ADn_de_Herrera

http://www.lone-star.net/mall/texasinfo/mexicow.htm


Last edited by A Foreign Mexican on Sat Jan 15, 2011 12:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Billy Joel



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PostSubject: Re: Mexican Conservatives/Centralists are to blame for the loss of mexican territory in 1846!   Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:32 pm

You spelt Zachary wrong.

Actually since Texas beileved the Rio Grande to be there border and are reason for involvement was for the defense of are kin in Texas we were literally defending their claims and at was beileved to be the border.

Texas was annexed in 46 not 45. Under texan desicion as joining the Union was a popular notion in Texas, they tried several years earlier during the Tyler Administration but the US did not seek war so they denied it.

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Tuco



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PostSubject: Re: Mexican Conservatives/Centralists are to blame for the loss of mexican territory in 1846!   Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:03 am

Branch in the Future wrote:
You spelt Zachary wrong.

>Oops.

Actually since Texas beileved the Rio Grande to be there border and are reason for involvement was for the defense of are kin in Texas we were literally defending their claims and at was beileved to be the border.

> *and WE (americans) believed it to be the border. Key sentence here.

Texas was annexed in 46 not 45. Under texan desicion as joining the Union was a popular notion in Texas, they tried several years earlier during the Tyler Administration but the US did not seek war so they denied it.

> Texas WAS annexed in 1845. And no, it was the because the Whigs did not support having another southern state which could legalize slavery. America refused to negotiate when the negotiations failed for the reasons stated above.


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Asdfgh



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PostSubject: Re: Mexican Conservatives/Centralists are to blame for the loss of mexican territory in 1846!   Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:26 am

Branch in the Future wrote:
You spelt Zachary wrong.




You spelled "spelled" wrong.
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Grim



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PostSubject: Re: Mexican Conservatives/Centralists are to blame for the loss of mexican territory in 1846!   Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:46 pm

A Foreign Libyan wrote:
Branch in the Future wrote:
You spelt Zachary wrong.




You spelled "spelled" wrong.


They're both right. It's like colour and color.
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Billy Joel



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PostSubject: Re: Mexican Conservatives/Centralists are to blame for the loss of mexican territory in 1846!   Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:10 pm

A Foreign Mexican wrote:
Branch in the Future wrote:
You spelt Zachary wrong.

>Oops.

Actually since Texas beileved the Rio Grande to be there border and are reason for involvement was for the defense of are kin in Texas we were literally defending their claims and at was beileved to be the border.

> *and WE (americans) believed it to be the border. Key sentence here.

Texas was annexed in 46 not 45. Under texan desicion as joining the Union was a popular notion in Texas, they tried several years earlier during the Tyler Administration but the US did not seek war so they denied it.

> Texas WAS annexed in 1845. And no, it was the because the Whigs did not support having another southern state which could legalize slavery. America refused to negotiate when the negotiations failed for the reasons stated above.




Wrong it was annexed in 46.

Thats only a logistics reason the core reason is what I stated above.

You realize this works both ways. Texas never agreed to recognize the Nueces to be the actual border so in the same sense you (the Mexicans) beileved it to be the border.
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Tuco



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PostSubject: Re: Mexican Conservatives/Centralists are to blame for the loss of mexican territory in 1846!   Sat Jan 15, 2011 6:17 pm

Branch in the Future wrote:
A Foreign Mexican wrote:
Branch in the Future wrote:
You spelt Zachary wrong.

>Oops.

Actually since Texas beileved the Rio Grande to be there border and are reason for involvement was for the defense of are kin in Texas we were literally defending their claims and at was beileved to be the border.

> *and WE (americans) believed it to be the border. Key sentence here.

Texas was annexed in 46 not 45. Under texan desicion as joining the Union was a popular notion in Texas, they tried several years earlier during the Tyler Administration but the US did not seek war so they denied it.

> Texas WAS annexed in 1845. And no, it was the because the Whigs did not support having another southern state which could legalize slavery. America refused to negotiate when the negotiations failed for the reasons stated above.




Wrong it was annexed in 46.

Thats only a logistics reason the core reason is what I stated above.

You realize this works both ways. Texas never agreed to recognize the Nueces to be the actual border so in the same sense you (the Mexicans) beileved it to be the border.


http://www.tsl.state.tx.us/ref/abouttx/annexation/timeline.html

DECEMBER 29 (1845)
President Polk signs the Joint Resolution. Texas officially the 28th state on this date.

That's my point. No one was defending their territory; it was disputed territory that was never agreed by any of the both countries.
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DJ PON-3



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PostSubject: Re: Mexican Conservatives/Centralists are to blame for the loss of mexican territory in 1846!   Sat Jan 15, 2011 6:39 pm

A Foreign Mexican wrote:
Branch in the Future wrote:
A Foreign Mexican wrote:
Branch in the Future wrote:
You spelt Zachary wrong.

>Oops.

Actually since Texas beileved the Rio Grande to be there border and are reason for involvement was for the defense of are kin in Texas we were literally defending their claims and at was beileved to be the border.

> *and WE (americans) believed it to be the border. Key sentence here.

Texas was annexed in 46 not 45. Under texan desicion as joining the Union was a popular notion in Texas, they tried several years earlier during the Tyler Administration but the US did not seek war so they denied it.

> Texas WAS annexed in 1845. And no, it was the because the Whigs did not support having another southern state which could legalize slavery. America refused to negotiate when the negotiations failed for the reasons stated above.




Wrong it was annexed in 46.

Thats only a logistics reason the core reason is what I stated above.

You realize this works both ways. Texas never agreed to recognize the Nueces to be the actual border so in the same sense you (the Mexicans) beileved it to be the border.


http://www.tsl.state.tx.us/ref/abouttx/annexation/timeline.html

DECEMBER 29 (1845)
President Polk signs the Joint Resolution. Texas officially the 28th state on this date.

That's my point. No one was defending their territory; it was disputed territory that was never agreed by any of the both countries.


So all this started because Texas was bitchin, Mexico was being a dick, and America (having penis envy from mexicos dicking around) had to overcompensate by pulling the biggest dick move they could think of.

Ahh, world politics.
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Asdfgh



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PostSubject: Re: Mexican Conservatives/Centralists are to blame for the loss of mexican territory in 1846!   Sun Jan 16, 2011 3:04 am

KING AGAMEMNON wrote:
A Foreign Libyan wrote:
Branch in the Future wrote:
You spelt Zachary wrong.




You spelled "spelled" wrong.


They're both right. It's like colour and color.


no u
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Billy Joel



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Age: 15
Location: Brooklyn, New York

PostSubject: Re: Mexican Conservatives/Centralists are to blame for the loss of mexican territory in 1846!   Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:28 pm

Butthurt above ^

Okay then gotcha TG, big misunderstanding.

It was annexed in 45, became a state in 46.
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